Intro: Do you feel like you were meant to have a kick-ass career as a hair stylist? Like you got into this industry to make big things happen?
Maybe you’re struggling to build a solid base and want some stability. Maybe you know social media is important, but it feels like a waste of time because you aren’t seeing any results. Maybe you’ve already had some amazing success but are craving more. Maybe you’re ready to truly enjoy the freedom and flexibility this industry has to offer.
Cutting and coloring skills will only get you so far, but to build a lifelong career as a wealthy stylist, it takes business skills and a serious marketing strategy. When you’re ready to quit, just working in your business and start working on it, join us here, where we share real success stories from real stylists.
I’m Britt Seva, social media and marketing strategist just for hair stylists, and this is the Thriving Stylist Podcast.
Britt Seva: What is up you guys and welcome back to the Thriving Stylist Podcast! I’m your host Britt Seva and I’m joined by a really special guest today.
Maxine Green is a stylist I’ve been fortunate to know for a couple of years. She’s one of the most driven, motivated, inspiring, uplifting, and positive women I have ever met. This is one of my most favorite interviews I’ve ever hosted and Maxine is going to share with us her journey through the industry, why she is so exceptionally different as both a stylist and a salon owner, her tips for effective communication with guests, marketing, using reviews and building in a community where you know absolutely no one, and you’re the salon who does things completely different than the norm.
You guys are going to absolutely love this interview and I’m so proud to introduce you to my friend, Maxine.
You guys are really in for a treat today. I am so beyond honored and excited to bring an amazing friend of mine, Maxine to the Thriving Stylist Podcast. Maxine is a stylist and salon owner I’ve admired for quite some time and I have full faith that we are connecting and sharing her story in just the right time in just the right way.
Thank you for taking the time and being on the show today. I’m so excited to have you!
Maxine Green: Oh my God, thank you so much for having me. I am super excited and I’ve been looking forward to this day.
Britt: Me too, you and me both, you and me both. The feeling is so mutual.
Tell me how you work, where you work presently today. Give us the 60 second overview of where you’re located, what your day-to-day work life looks like, a little bit about your clientele. Just give us the overview.
Maxine: Awesome. So I am a salon owner and stylist at Curly Dimension salon. It’s a salon that I started five years ago (yay!) in Brooklyn, New York.
I’ve always wanted to be a hairdresser and so to get the opportunity to do that was amazing. I have a group of amazing clients. I know people often say that you are what you attract or you essentially attract what you are, right? I have an amazing group of clients and they have essentially become a direct extension of my family.
My day-to-day work looks like it’s just another girlfriend day, to be quite honest. It’s so much fun. The conversations are amazing, the connections are amazing. And I so look forward to every day that I get to change the lives of these women and they get to spend an hour or two with me and I’m so grateful.
Britt: I love that. I love the way that you love on your clients, how you embrace the work that you do, and I can only imagine how sitting in your chair would feel as one of your guests.
Tell me, what does it look like? I’m not, I’m not well aware what is the competition level in Brooklyn. Is there a salon in every corner? Is the competition high for what you do? Tell me.
Maxine: Absolutely. Absolutely. There’s two or three salons within a half a mile radius or every corner. I can tell you I am off of the main road, and—first of all, let me just say this. I don’t have a sign. I don’t do walk-ins, and that’s by intention, right? So when you come into my space, it’s this beautiful serene spa-like space. And I get it all the time. “Oh my God, this is a little gem in Brooklyn. You need to be in Manhattan.”
But I love the environment that I’ve created, the culture that I’ve created. And I wanted to change the narrative for beauty salons, right? Or hair salons as they know it.
This is more than a beauty salon. This is more than a hair salon. This is a direct, just a ministry, so to speak, right? And because the competition is so heavy in New York, I wanted to stand out, right? I wanted to create a culture and an environment so clients come in and they’re like, “Wow.” And I get it all the time. It’s more than just a salon space.
Britt: I love that you say you’re creating a ministry. I just like so feel that’s my soul. And I love that you are the shining star in Brooklyn, that people will say like, “Oh, you need to be in Manhattan,” and you’re like, “No, I want to be the gem here. I want to show you that we can have exceptional, amazing experiences here. You don’t have to go to Manhattan to find that.”
Maxine: Absolutely, and I think that so often with the area that I’m in, hair salons are perceived with a very negative connotation. But I got into this business because I just wanted to make people feel amazing. My experience in hair salons haven’t always been a good one and so I wanted to make my guests feels just simply amazing. That’s why when you walk in the door, the first thing you’re greeted with is “Hello beautiful.” Because everyone needs to know that they’re beautiful regardless of how they wear their hair or regardless of who they are, right? We never know what someone is going through if we don’t say “Hello, how are you?” Things like that, right.
So I always make sure that the clients are greeted with just a warm smile or just a warm invite. Changing the narrative for me was a huge thing in opening a salon space.
Britt: Okay, let’s talk about that for a minute. So you mentioned you had had negative experiences in the salon in the past and part of your mission is to ensure that that doesn’t happen in the future. So can we go there? Can you talk about what you did experience going into the salon in the past?
Maxine: Oh my god. What? I would always tell people I am a client first, right? That’s how I go into anything, I’m a client first.
I wanted to change how a client feels, right? Because it’s often when you come in a space, “Hi, how are you? Okay, what are you getting done?” It is very dry, very boring.
For me, my experience has always been “Okay, you’re getting a relaxer,” when I was getting relaxed and this was like 23 years ago, right? “Are you getting the relaxer?” is so very impersonal, right? “Okay, well, sit over there and I’ll be right with you,” or have you waited hours at a time so your appointment is at 1 p.m. and you’re not leaving until 9 p.m. in the day. For me, that was like an absolute no-no.
I wanted to change that narrative because I knew how I felt as a client, and I could only imagine. Now clients come in and they’re in and out. They’re like, “Wait a minute, two hours? Really?” I’m like, “Yes, sweetie. I value your time because I want you to value mine.”
That for me is important. It was really important for me to set the stage. Before I opened my brick and mortar, I’ve always booth rented and I even had a schedule because I believe in just having structure in that manner. And for me, the client was like, “Wait, we have to book an appointment?” Absolutely. A hundred percent.
I value your time. I’m not that stylist that’s going to have 10 people here at once. I am not double-booking, overbooking myself because I’m not—I work well under pressure, but I don’t want you looking at me every five minutes, saying when I’m going to get to you. Do you know what I mean?
That for me was important because I know how I felt when that happened to me or being skipped over to have another client being styled, right?
Britt: I want to dive into that for a second because I think to what you’re saying, people forget that we all have been a client. We are consumers day-to-day and we forget how it feels being on the flip side so often. So how did it feel for you when you got in there and you’d sit there for 45 minutes waiting for someone to start you and watch—basically nobody cared I’m going to assume. “She’ll be fine, we’ll get to her when we get to her.” That happens so often and it’s almost like stylists have forgotten. They think that like, “Well, the clients need to rotate around my time and I’ll get you when I get to you,” and they really forget about that human component of that poor person sitting in the corner, wondering what the hell is happening.
Maxine: That’s right. Because that, what that tells me is that stylist, not only don’t you value me as a customer, but you don’t value my time, right?
So one or two things would happen in the past. You come in, if you booked me for a one o’clock appointment and you’re now strolling in at 1:30 or two o’clock because you, what, you have to go shopping and/or you have to do something or the other. Really? So I’m sitting here and then once you got me started, I’m sitting either with conditioner in my hair or dripping wet, and you’re like, “Let me get to this other girl. She has to get up.” What about me? I have to get out to. Come on.You put yourself in my shoes for a second and then see how you would feel if you were on the other end, right?
I think that a lot of stylists that I’ve noticed missed the mark on that part, right? And so they wonder, “Wait a minute, why are all my clients leaving?”
Seriously, readjust and analyze what you’re doing, and realign. I’m sure if you survey your clients, they’ll say, “Well, she’s always late.” “She’s never on time.”
I’m in the salon 10 hours of the day. I’ve seen and I’ve heard stories of clients who have booked an appointment, come in, the stylist wasn’t ready for them. Then they would then leave, go shopping or run errands, come back, and the stylist is still not ready. That’s unacceptable in our industry. It’s totally unacceptable. And for me, it wasn’t something that I wanted to do as a stylist, right? So I made a mental note to myself that this was not going to happen in my space.
Britt: I love that. I love that you used the word unacceptable because it is unacceptable yet it’s been normalized. I can remember there were two stylists who would come into work in my salon late every day without fail. 20 minutes late, 25 minutes late. If you’re 25 minutes late every day, it wasn’t a rough morning. This is just your normal operating procedure and you never catch up. So every guest runs late, the stylists would get snarky, they didn’t understand why their clients were short tempered. And you are creating this.
And then some stylists will blame, like, “Well, I’m too busy, of course I’m gonna run late, run long.” No, it’s not because you’re too busy. It’s because you’re mismanaging your business completely. And you’ve really harnessed the power of that.
You worked as a booth renter. When did you know it was time to become a salon owner?
Maxine: Oh my God. Good question. So let me tell you, fear is something that cripples us, right? Especially in the Black and brown community, because one, we don’t think we can do it and we don’t have the finances to do it. So fear cripples us a lot, right?
I know I can only speak for myself, but I know fear crippled me for so long. When I knew it was time was when I just—in every salon I’ve worked in, I was always booked out. I can share what I did to get there, right. I was completely booked out and it got to the point where the stylists were like, “Maxine has all the dryers,” “These are all clients from Maxine.” I start my day, 9 a.m. clients in and out. Now the stylists are strolling in at 12:30, one o’clock in the afternoon. By four o’clock, five o’clock I’m like “Goodnight everybody, have a great evening.” “Wait, are you done?” “Yes, absolutely. I’m out.”
For me, I no longer wanted to be an environment where there’s constant bickering. There’s constant shampoos thrown around across the salon, and the yelling, at the end of the day, the turn-up music comes on, right?
I wanted a serene environment and it was so funny that so many clients said to me, “It’s time for you to get your own space. You don’t fit in here. You actually stuck out a sore thumb.”
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that. But the fear of going out on my own and saying how am I going to be able to pull this off? And then one day I think there was a fight in a salon. I think it was the last salon I was working in and I started to cry. I was crying. I was crying out of a space of frustration and I was crying out of space of anger. Because at this point I’m thinking “You were about to mess with my money,” right? And so you guys have no control. It wasn’t even a stylist—it was a client and a client and then a stylist. I just was like, “I couldn’t do it anymore. I have to get out of here.” And so I said a silent prayer and I was like, “Okay, God, I need you to do something. Show up. Do something right now because I need to leave.”
I remember, it was one year, my husband asked me, “What would you like for your birthday?” I was like, “I want my salon. I want my salon,” just like that. I don’t want anything else, just my salon. He’s like, “Okay.” And I will kid you not one week before my birthday, my husband gave me $5,000 as a gift. He sowed that seed into my space, my dream, and that’s how I was able to open my brick and mortar.
Britt: Wow. Wow. I have so many questions. I’m going to ask a question and I hope that you’ll be open to enlightening me. You mentioned something where you said it’s scary opening your own business, especially when you’re a Black or brown. Can you explain to me why that fear resonates even deeper?
Maxine: One, because we don’t know if the clients will come, right. The other thing is if we don’t know the clients will come, it’s the lack of confidence within ourselves to know that we can do this, right? And if we continue to improve on ourselves, the clients will come.
I’ve heard an old boss say to me, “Stylists are 80% talent, 20% personality,” or I think it’s one the other way around, right? I never understood that scene until I was in my own space. Most stylists, they could be 80% talent or 80% personality or 20% talent or vice versa. But if you don’t have the confidence within yourself to know that you can bring this or you can do this, then it’s not going to work.
For me, I was like, I’m ready. I’ve prayed for this. I’ve wanted this so long. My husband was my biggest cheerleader. I know that I was ready. I knew that I was ready. And besides, I got confirmation so many times, right?
I think so many of us operate from a space of scarcity and because that fear cripples us, we decide it’s okay for us to just rent. We don’t want the responsibility or even just dealing with the overhead and all that it entails.
I can’t speak for everyone, but most of the people that I’ve been around, we didn’t go to business school. We didn’t get like, “Okay, where are we going to get the money to open?” I think the whole preconceived notion of you need this big set of money to open a space, right? We don’t have that and then we lack confidence, so all those factors made up for, “yeah. That’s just not for me. I’m just going to keep renting and it’s okay. I’m okay with being in that comfortable space.”
Britt: You’re conditioned to think it’s safer to play a small, so I’ll just keep playing it small and stay right here, and that’s what I get, and this is my comfort zone, to exactly what you said.
You said there’s that misconception of you need a hundred grand to open your own space or you’ve got to have an investor, and I agree that is a major misconception. That’s not to say that you can go in with nothing and find success, but what did it take for you to open your salon?
Your amazing partner helped you and said, “I believe in you, I’m going to push you over the finish line.” I can hear when you say, especially when your clients were saying like, “Maxine, you’re too good for this place,” like your clients thought too. I know that helps build the confidence, but it sounds like your husband was part of the tipping point that pushed you over and was like, “No, we’re going to do this.”
Maxine: Yes. To be quite honest, I don’t think I could have done this without my husband. I know that people say that very often, but for me, I’ve had opportunities to purchase a salon years ago and I couldn’t do it. I knew I wasn’t ready at the time, but it wasn’t until with the encouragement of my clients and my husband that I said, “You know what? It is time.” And then the uncomfortableness of my current environment. That was the tipping point for me. I felt so uncomfortable. I knew I didn’t belong. I wasn’t giving the clients the respect, the love that I wanted to give them, how I wanted to be the amenities, just everything.
Let me share a story. The last salon I was in, the first couple of months I was there—I’ve never worked in an environment like that before. And so I decided that because we were always working together, I think it was like a salon of like 15 or 16 chairs, right? So I said to one of the girls, I said, “Hey, listen, we’re here always, let’s break bread together.” It’s coming up on Thanksgiving, let’s break bread together. And so there was like, “Wow, Max. Okay, sure. Let’s do it.”
In Brooklyn, if you ever been to New York, in addition to salons, there’s a ton of restaurants available. There was one in particular that we patronize a lot and I went to him and I said, “Listen, I want to have a little get together of the salon right now. Can you cook me some food?” I paid for all the food and the entire salon ate and their clients ate. One of the stylists later said to me, “I’ve never worked in an environment where someone did that.”
I was like, wait a minute, but we’re supposed to be a team, a cohesive team. Even if we’re divided by the fact that we’re all booth renters, the clients don’t have to know that, right? For me, it was the point of breaking bread together. We work together, we feed our clients. We can all do this together. And so it was nothing for me because I’m used to that type of environment, right? I got so much, “I can’t believe you did that,” “Not even the owner did that.” “How? Why?”
I was really shocked that so many stylists came up to me later saying how impressive there were. I’m like, “I did nothing. All I did was bought food and we all ate. Your clients ate, my clients ate, and we were good.”
That for me, that small gesture meant more to the clients and the stylists than anything else, right? When I saw that, I was like, “Yeah, I’m in the wrong environment.”
Britt: You’re right. Total indicator that you’re of a different mindset, of a different belief. But when you say it was little, it was no big deal, it was nothing. It was major, Max, because what I’m going to guess that what you did that day however many years ago is a story that every single stylist that was in that room will never forget. It’s probably legendary to them. Every single client who got to experience that probably tells that story. It’s that ripple effect. You are the ripple in the ocean that said, “But what if we do it differently?”
You’ve shown the possibility and whatever anybody else decides to do from there is on them. We can’t control that piece, but you had the vision that this can be a community. We can be bigger. We can be better. We can be stronger.
Maxine: Absolutely. Without a doubt.
Britt: As you open your own salon space, what was important to you? What did you know was going to be a part of the vision? Were you scared? Because now you’re essentially creating an environment that you’ve not worked in yourself before, but that you always dreamed of.
Maxine: Yeah, absolutely. As I was opening, the biggest thing for me was the level of comfort. I wanted everybody to have some sense of comfortability, right. Whereas my previous salon, everything was wide open, everyone can see in, there was so many women with personal hair issues. Their journey was different.
I wanted women to come in and essentially feel comfortable and let the guards down. So as a result of that, the windows of the salon is tinted. You can’t see in during the day but night, you can certainly see in. That was really important for me.
I’ve had clients who sat in the chair and just bow their heads down because they don’t want the streets or people passing by to see them. And so I wanted women to come into space and feel comfortable with just let everything down. Creating a space that it’s just like the shoulders just go back. And it just, [sighs].
Yeah, was I scared? A hundred percent. A hundred percent, but I’m going to be completely transparent with you. I knew that this was the right thing to do. I felt it in my bones. I felt it in my gut. And once I’d said my prayers about it, I knew it was done. I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt.
There’s a movie by Kevin Costner, it’s one of my favorite movies, it’s called A Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. The movie just carried me for so many years. I love that movie and I love what it says. If you build it, they will come.
So I built a culture. If I build it, they will come.
Clients were like, “Wherever you go, I will come.” I was scared that I would lose clients, right. Because clients was like, they don’t like the hopping around and essentially where I’m located currently and where that previous salon is on the other side of Brooklyn, right? I was afraid of losing the clientele, but can I tell you clientele has doubled. Tripled. Right?
That for me, it just showed me “Max, you’re stronger than you really think you are.” Never looked back. Never looked back.
Britt: I love this. One of the things I really admire about you is you’re so observant. You and I see business in the same way in that we don’t wait to be told what to do. We look around and see what’s going on and anticipate challenges and anticipate feelings.
When you said, “I chose to have it so that if you walk by my salon during the day, the windows are tinted, you can’t see in because I want everyone to be comfortable,”—I wear hair extensions. I talk about all the time. It’s not so that my hair is longer. My hair is painfully thin, embarrassing, so I won’t go out to my mailbox and check the mail unless I have extensions in because it’s too embarrassing for me. And I have not set foot in a salon in probably six years to have my hair done because of exactly what you described. It’s embarrassing for me. To hear you say, “I thought about that and I want when somebody walks in my doors to not be afraid that the people on the street are going to be looking at them at their worst, most vulnerable moment,” that you thought the feelings through, and could it be argued like, “Man, it would have been so much smarter if she had just had it lit up and you could see it from the street and everyone can look in and see everything,” I don’t know.
But from a clientele standpoint and a comfortability standpoint, you put that first and you said marketing, foot traffic, all that set aside. I need to take care of my guests. When you put that first and foremost, you saw that tremendous success.
Maxine: That’s right. And can I tell you as a result of that, I don’t do walk-ins.
Britt: Yeah, I want to talk about that. You mentioned that, you said I don’t necessarily want somebody to walk into my salon and choose me that way.
Maxine: No. walk-ins, and I’ve heard you mentioned this so many times on your podcast and I was like, “That’s right, girl. Tell them.”
Walk-ins bring a different kind of element and for me, my peace of mind is very important, right? So I don’t want to stop in the middle of a client or customer and have to be addressed or it’s like, “What’s going on here?” It just brings a different vibe, a different feel. And I’m all about creating the energy for clients, and once that’s disrupted, it’s so hard to get back on track, right?
For me, I don’t do walk-ins. Everything is by appointment only. I can share with you for the first three years of being in my location, no one knew I was a salon.
Britt: Wow.
Maxine: The first three years. It’s now people are starting to see, “Wait, there’s a salon there?”
If you Google curly hair in Brooklyn, I’m the first one that comes up.
Britt: Wow. How did you do it? How do you think you did that?
Maxine: I would be lying if I told you, girl, I did that by myself. I have you to thank for that, so thank you very much, Britt.
But I want to say that the biggest part of that was my website. Again, thank you. Building that website was such a struggle for me, but I can tell you I would do it all over again. I wouldn’t change anything about it. And that was what changed for me.
I remember going to my distributor and having a conversation with the sales rep and I said, “Hey,”—and now I’ve developed a rapport with her—and I said, “Hey, how do you feel about websites or stylists having a website?” She said to me, “Girl, I would never deal with a stylist who don’t have a website.” I said, “Really?” She said, “Max, no, never.” And I said, “Okay,” and I said, “I’m working on mine.”
She said, “Max, get it together, get your website together,” and I was like, “thanks.”
Can I tell you she doesn’t look like me. She doesn’t sound like me. She doesn’t live in the same neighborhood as me, but because we had that rapport, she was able to give me some positive feedback and I appreciate it, right? And that’s when I was like, “Okay, gun-ho, gun-ho, let me just do this and execute the website, in addition to me doing my SEOs, right?
If people aren’t familiar with that, it’s just how you market, how the keywords that you put yourself out there. For me, I wanted to stand out, right? Because I believe I’m not that girl that sits in the back of the class. I’ve never been that girl. I’m the girl that finds a seat in the front because I’m going to get all the nuggets or all the juju that you’re about to throw at me and I’ll take it, right?
For that reason, I wanted to stand out. How can I set myself out apart from everyone else? So I did everything that you’ve coached to, that you have said, please make sure this is done this way, and I went back, fine tuned it. And that’s what happened. Google is my friend.
Britt: Google is your BFF and that’s the truth. But I love that. I love that you push yourself. And you’re like really the freaking website. And I know when I talk about the importance of the website, people roll their eyes and think I’m insane and that’s okay. But it really is. It’s a level of professionalism.
And to what you said, distributors take those kinds of things into account. It goes so much deeper than just does a client care or not. We don’t know, but if we’re looking at our business as a whole, it’s just such a key and crucial part of the business framework from the start. You’re exactly right. Absolutely.
Do you think most of your new clients come from online reviews, Instagram referrals, word of mouth? What is it for you?
Maxine: It’s a combination of all of them, all of the above, and I’ll tell you why. With the exception of being on Instagram, on Facebook, a lot of my current clients always tell their friends, “Hey, you got to get with my girl Maxine,” and what I’m finding lately—not even lately, it’s just been ongoing. I’m getting three to four phone calls per day from clients and they’re finding me on the internet because I always ask, “So how did you hear about me?” Or if a new guest comes in, “How did you hear about the salon?” And they were like either “I found you on the website,” or “I found your website,” “I found you on Google,” or “I found you on a curly girl website,” or “Somebody mentioned your name,” or “I found you through a hashtag on Instagram.” And I’m like, “Wow, that’s amazing.”
I remember a blogger mentioned me in her blog and I had no idea. A client mentioned it to me. And I was like, really? And they’re like, “Yes, girl, you’re popular.” And I was like, Oh my God.
Funny story. Clients will go anywhere, and they know my curls. So I’m known for the curls, right? If someone comes up to my client and goes, “I love your hair. It’s so beautiful. Where did you get it done?” “Oh, I go to this girl in Canarsie, Curly Dimension salon.” It was like, “Oh, I’ve heard about her.”
Britt: “I’ve heard about her.” Your reputation.
Maxine: Yeah. It’s out there and every time I hear that story or every time a client repeats that to me, I’m always like, “Wow, really?” For me, it’s like, “Okay, Max, you have to keep it up. You have to keep finding a way to reinvent the wheel or just reinvent yourself or just keep it up.” Not necessarily reinvent the wheel, but keep it up. Don’t shift. Don’t change.
Britt: Okay, I love this. Now you specialize in women with curly hair, specifically women.
Maxine: Correct.
Britt: Okay, now, let’s say somebody does see another woman was curly and says, “Wow, I love your hair. Where did you get it done?” Your name comes up. Do you think that you actually do the hair differently? Is your technique different or is it just the experience you provide or is it all of it?
Maxine: It’s all of it. Let me validate why I say that. When essentially when someone sees my work, especially on a kinkier texture, a couple of things happen. The curly girls are looking for definition and they’re looking for moisture, right. Because they’re not familiar with, “Oh, now I’m natural, now what?” There’s so many questions that come along with that, right? So when they find or see a style that they like, they’re like, “That’s exactly what I’ve been looking for. Where did you get it done?”
Now that they know where to get it done, they come in or once they get an appointment and they come in and they’re like, “Wait a minute, this is a whole experience. Really?” They’ll come in and I educate them. I do a consultation and we work through what their vision is and what they’re looking to get done and how they’re looking to get this done. They’re like, “Wait a minute. I can see why you’re so booked out. This is why.”
Then your environment is serene. It was like, “Oh, I love the colors of your salon. It’s so serene.”
Britt: It’s like they found their home. Like after all these years, they found their home.
Maxine: A hundred percent.
Britt: Without giving all your secrets away, what do you think it is about your consultation? I got a little inkling when you were explaining it. You’re not just looking for, “Hey, what’s your name? What are you looking for today?” What are you looking for in that consultation and what are some of the things you talk about?
Maxine: I’m gonna give you one of my secrets. Years ago I was working for a salon in Manhattan and they did this thing, personalities, right. If you’re aware of the personalities, you figure out, okay, who is your doer? Who is your driver? Who’s the amicable person?
I believe in personalities, I live for them, and so I’ve done them so many times. I am that hairdresser that can point out who my client is, why they walk, how they dress, how they speak. I’m going to adjust myself to who you are, right? I’m not necessarily going to come down or go up. I’m simply going to adjust. So if you are that doer, who is the lawyer, who always want to be in control, always want to be in charge, you know what I mean? I’m going to meet you exactly where you are.
Because for me, if you find that I am a little bit shaky and I’m wavery in my delivery, you’re going to walk all over me. Of course, I’m not that amicable person either. I’m not going to tell you, “Oh, this looks amazing. That looks amazing,” knowing very well it won’t look amazing. I’m going to tell you exactly how I feel or how I think, or based on a couple of questions—“What is your vision for your hair? Where are you looking to go? And what have you been doing so far? What are you?” You know what I mean? I ask all the right questions so I can get all the right answers, and then we come up with a game plan.
For me, the biggest thing I can give you right now, or say the personality tests has helped solidify me as a stylist that knows who my clients are.
I always tell the clients, I’m a hair hustler. I listened and I listened for everything, right? I can be working on a client, but I’m listening to the sink to see what’s going on over there because I never want to miss a conversation. I never want to miss a question. I’m always in tune. It doesn’t matter. I can be present here with this particular client, but I’m also listening, right?
I think that’s the biggest thing for me, that personality test, understanding who my clients are, where they’re coming from, their walks of life, what they’re dealing with day to day. And I always get, “Oh my gosh, Maxine. You’re really good.” Yes. I worked very hard.
Britt: You hit on several key points for me right there. What you’re referring to is something that I call style flexing and a lot of people are actually really scared to do it. A lot of times it’s an ego thing, sometimes it’s you just don’t understand, so you can’t do it because you don’t understand. I can empathize with that.
But sometimes it’s an ego thing and it’s like, “Well, take me as I am or don’t take me at all.” And to what Max is saying, she’s always who she is, but she was able to get on your level and match your tone and understand what it is that you need to have a successful visit and what the person needs to have a successful visit from a communication standpoint, from an energetic standpoint, is going to vary with every single person who sits in her chair, and she sees it that way.
So she always comes as she is, but delivers the facets of herself that are needed for that particular guest and that I am certain creates the bond.
The other thing that you mentioned that I’m going to say something and not everyone’s going to love it, but it’s okay. I’m going to say it anyway. You mentioned something to me that when, if I was in your chair, you’d be ever present with me. We would have connection. We wouldn’t be interrupted by walk-ins because you’re there with me. You’re giving me that time so that we can really connect, which I appreciate. You’re also listening to the other pieces going on and you’re aware—you said “aware” a couple of times.
One of the things that concerns me is sometimes I hear stylists and they’re like, “Oh, I was doing a client, but I popped in an earphone so I could listen to you stream live, Britt.” Or “I was doing a client, but I didn’t want to miss a Clubhouse, so I popped in an earphone.”
I understand that, like I understand that fear of missing out is so real. But sometimes we have to remember that the fear of missing out on what’s going on in our own four walls or what’s going on with that client in your seat is as important or even more important than whatever it is you’re popping in your earphone for, then whatever it is, you’re chatting with your co stylist about. It’s a different level of awareness and to you, it’s so innate. And I think to a lot of people, it’s almost something we’ve forgotten in the industry to begin
Maxine: A hundred percent. I agree a hundred percent. I think that when you are a stylist and you’re working with a guest, the guest doesn’t—and Maya Angelo said it best, right? People don’t care. They don’t, they don’t care how much you know, they just want to know that you care. So for me, it’s always, I care, right? I care.
How’s your lifestyle? Are you working out? Are you taking vitamins? And you can ask any of my clients. These are questions that I ask all the time, because I want to know has anything changed, what are you doing now so that I know how to direct you, how to assist you.
And I truly mean my mission, my vision is to assist you on wearing your hair in the best, possible way, but healthy, right? Whether you choose to wear it in a relaxed state or you choose to wear it in a natural state, it doesn’t matter. I’m going to get you to that space of helping it, but we’re going to do it on the right way, right?
And clients tell me all the time, “Your hands agree with my hair.” No, actually it doesn’t. It’s just what I’m using, I know hair. I’ve studied, I’ve learned, I’ve taken—I’m a professional student first. I’m a professional student.
Britt: I love that so much. Yes.
Maxine: Right? For me, it’s always, how can I improve my client? How can I improve her hair? What I’ve learned. So I spend a ton of time learning and just embracing my own self, but because I’ve worked with my own hair for so long that I know, right? I know how to work with the curls and I know how I want the curls to look, so I’m going to ask you what your vision is, what is your idea of what your hair should look like, right? ‘Cause we all have these different ideas. We see social media because we’re inundated with the curls and “Okay, do you know how it got that way?” You know what I mean?
I want the clients to understand this is a journey and everyone has a journey. I’ll get you through the journey, but you have to do your part as well, and I’ll do my part. That’s important to me.
Britt: I love that you create that partnership with your clients. I think there’s sometimes a resentment of, “Well, I did my best and then whatever they do on their own time is what they do on their own time.”
But for you, you’ve said the word “journey” I don’t know how many times in our interview. You see you and your guests on this journey together towards a common goal and that you’re going to set them up for success.
And even when you’re talking about vitamins, uh, yes, my hands know what they’re doing, but, but my goal is to help so that your hands do as well and that we’re partners in this together. I think that’s so exceptional.
I have to ask you, you mentioned you’re a lifetime student, which is something I’m so passionate about because I agree, I feel the same. How do you know what your weak spots are? How do you know what you need to educate yourself on to reach the next level? That’s something that people ask me quite a bit and it’s hard because I feel like it’s different for everybody, but how do you know what I need a class on is this, or how do you find a good educator? Do you have any tips for that?
Maxine: For me, what I find works is if I’m struggling in an area, so in particular I’m a colorist, right? I love color. I play in color all the time, but there were so many things about color that I didn’t understand and colors theory, colors chemistry. I wanted to understand color so well because I want it to execute amazing colors, not just throw anything together, right? I wanted to have my color just, “Oh God. How did you get that color,” right? Those moments for me means a lot. As a result of that, I looked for classes and educators who I admire or whom I see, like their work just is hands down amazing, right? Because we all learn from somewhere.
I want to, how should I say this? I want to improve on what’s already there. Not necessarily fix it, but just improve on it, right? For me, looking at educator, their work is a huge thing. How are they presenting themselves to us, right? Because social media can tell you one story, but I really want to see the end story because I always tell people there’s a curtain. I want to pull back the curtains on everybody, right. I want to pull back the veils. I want to see everything because I think oftentimes what people put up is just a curtain in front and they feel like, “Okay, well, if I just give you just the first layer…” I want to peel back those onions. I want to get to know everything.
So it’s important for me to look at that educator and say, “Okay, well, I can agree. I can disagree. I love their work. I love how they’re presenting themselves to the world. I just love everything about it.”
You can tell a person’s personality that comes through their work when you look at them, so I look for just multiple things.
I, and I mentioned earlier, I’m a big believer in peace of mind and how we jive together and energy and synergy, so I look how that person is talking, right? Because delivery for me is key. How you’re seeing a message is so important, so I look for delivery, right? And if your delivery is amazing, I’m going to keep watching you.
Like I’ve watched you for a long time, Britt, right? A colleague of mine introduced me to you and I’ve watched you and I’ve listened to you for a long time, and I said, “Nah, I liked this girl a lot. I really liked this girl,” and that’s what made me jump on your ship. That’s what made me jump on board, right?
So for that, I look to see how people are presenting themselves because I don’t want your representative. I want the authentic you, right? So I look for the authenticness behind a person’s message, how you’re executing your work. Your work could be amazing, but then you can be a terrible educator. I was an educator before, so I know all too well about presenting your authentic self.
Britt: I love this so deeply and I think that those are wise words for those seeking education and those who are educators as well, because I’ll agree with you. I think there’s a bit of a lack of authenticity and it is difficult to pull back the curtain and be like, “Okay, what’s actually going on here?” And until you’re able to do that and to what you said, just observe for a minute, like take a beat until you find the right person or the right people or the right organization to learn from. And ask around to what you said. A friend told you about me, like ask around and find real verification that whomever you’re learning from really is the right person for you. I think that’s so incredibly important.
Okay. For anybody who’s listened to this interview and is feeling mega inspired by you like I am, what would your advice be for somebody who’s like, “Man, when I hear Max talk about what she’s created, I mean, she’s describing so much of what I’m feeling or her journey really resonates with me,” what would be some advice? What would be advice that you would give yourself five years ago? What would you tell yourself when you’re on the cusp of like, “I just feel like I’m ready for a next level, but I’m not sure I could do it.”
Maxine: Believe in yourself. And I say that, let me validate that. It took me a long time to get to this place of Max, you’re amazing. You’re enough. You are good at what you do. It took me a long time, right? Because for so long, I had to dim down who I was, dim down that I was this great stylist, dim down that I can execute, right?
I remember having a stylist told me, “Yeah, you’re trying to take away my clients.” What? But I’m not trying to take away your clients. But that for me was just like your level of insecurity is not a part of me, right? So believe in who you are and know that you are enough. You have something to give to people, and you have a talent. Tap into that, right? And don’t allow anyone’s insecurities or their beliefs to transfer to you or to even make you say, “I can’t do this.” You absolutely can.
I’m a firm believer that we were all placed here for a reason, and I say that wholeheartedly. We were all placed here for a reason. We all have a talent. I stay in my lane and I believe that everybody should stay in their lane, right? That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t tap into different things or different talents that we all have, but stay in your lane, stay true to who you are, and everything else will fall in alignment. Everything else will fall in alignment. Just believe in yourself, believe in yourself.
Can I share something with you? A few years ago I was living in Atlanta. It’s been about maybe eight years now since I’ve been back in New York, eight or nine years since I’ve been back in New York from Atlanta. When I first moved to Atlanta, I knew nobody, knew no one. I went to work for a salon and the salon was referred to me by the previous salon that I worked at in New York. So now I have to start and build up myself again, right? Within three months, I built a solid clientele. I was booked out for six weeks. Six weeks within three months. You could not get an appointment with me. Some of those clients are still my clients today, right? I’ve created lasting friendships and relationships with so many of those clients from that time, that season of my life, right. And it was all because I stayed true to who I am. I believe in myself, and I knew that I had a talent. I knew that I can do this.
And at the time I was a single mom with two children, single mom with two children. I moved to Atlanta with nothing and created a clientele, created such a life for myself and my children to the point where my finances were amazing. Amazing. And then I did it again. I dropped all of that and moved to New York to be with my husband and I had to start all over again.
I can tell you, I did the same thing. I built out within six months, I had a full clientele, a full book. And in Atlanta, I should say this, I wasn’t on social media as I am now, so that it was all word of mouth. What I did was I did a lot of Yelp referrals, and so everybody kept saying, “Who is this Maxine that people keep talking about? I need to go see Maxine.”
It was all just referrals, but I had repeat clients. I had repeat clients. My clientele grew tremendously, so when I left that salon, all of them came with me.
Britt: Wow. When you said you had Yelp referrals, were you working the Yelp platform? Are you asking for reviews? What does that look like?
Maxine: I was just asking for reviews and what I did was I said, “Hey, I would really appreciate it if you write a review for me on Yelp, and when you come in the next time, we’ll give you a free steam treatment.” It worked, it worked, right? So I didn’t maximize Yelp at that time the way we are learning to maximize Yelp now, right? But look at how well Yelp worked for me. I mean, it works. It really works. I was booked out. You couldn’t get an appointment with me.
Britt: You know what I love about you, Max, is that you make—it’s not easy, but you make everything feel so effortless. Like you make even the things that feel like moving mountains just feel so strategic. You’re like you want more reviews? Just ask. People will do it. You want to build a dream salon? Have faith in yourself, have a vision for yourself, know that your clients deserve better, and just do it. You want to retain clients, pour into them. Know that you’re in a relationship business, you’re not just in the business of doing hair. I just love your vision of the industry, I love your vision for the life that you’re creating, and I love your vision for your clientele. You’re incredible.
If anybody listening to this podcast wants to follow you and love you to pieces just the way that I do, where’s the best place to connect with you?
Maxine: You can certainly connect with me on @curlydimensionssalon on Instagram and social and Facebook, all platforms, I’m @curlydimensionssalon. And certainly you can look me up on the website as well, and you can even Google Maxine Green the hair stylist, and you will find me.
Britt: She’s very find-able if you couldn’t figure it out already, we’re going to find her, no problem. And I am following Maxine. So if you follow me, you can find her by looking at who I follow. Thank you so much, you are an inspiration, and I am so I’m so thankful to have you on the podcast.
Maxine: Britt, thank you so much. You have no idea. I love you to pieces. So thank you so much for having me on this platform. I sincerely appreciate you and just everything that you do for the community and for our industry. It’s needed. There was nothing like this before. Keep doing what you’re doing, Britt. You are doing an amazing job. You really are. Forget the naysayers people that you’re going to have. There’s a saying that says, let your haters be your motivators. They be. Let your haters be your motivators because you are phenomenal. You are doing wonderful, and we love you like—the brown girls on this side of the town, we love you, honey.
Britt: Maxine, I love you more. I had no idea how much I needed this today. Thankful and grateful for you.
Maxine: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sincerely. Thank you.
Maxine. Again, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. You are a true jam. You guys follow Maxine at curly dimension salon on Instagram and as always so much love, happy business building, and I’ll see you on the next one.
